SUBJECT: NEW AGE FORUM 21-JUN-92 FILE: UFO2964 *********** New Age Forum 21-Jun-92 15:47:35 David/Moderator: Gentlemen, I think we need to call this CO to official | order, is that OK with everybody? Jeff Morrow: yes. Joe Balsamo: yep Steve | Yes David - the other o: go David/Moderator: OK.. here we go, first I must get the formalities out of | the way so.... | I am the moderator and will basically run the CO, if you have a | question type a ?, if you have a comment type a !.... | I will then call on you each in turn, please do not interrupt | whomever is speaking, when your called on, please send a OK..., | so .. | that we know your typing your message. Finish each line with a | set of elipses, such as ....,. When you finished, send a GA | to... | indicate you are finished. Everyone understand?...ga Joe Balsamo: Yes Jeff Morrow: yes David - the other o: yes David/Moderator: Ok... | Joe I think you had something to say?...ha | Sorry, I mean ga Joe Balsamo: Well, how many people here are familiar with the database | project that we have been discussing in previous COs? GA David - the other o: ! David/Moderator: David, ga David - the other o: I know of it's existence. It seems there is some | concern on duplication of | efforts. GA David/Moderator: There is concern that we don't want to duplicate the | efforts of groups like CUFOS and MUFON...... | however we are still trying to continue with the thing and | talking with these groups in turn....ga David - the other o: It seems there are two ways to go. A distribute base | or a central base everyone chips into...GA David/Moderator: Ok... | actually we are taling of doing a combo of each. This Forum | would be the central base, for now, but the DB would.... | also be distributed through the normal UFO networks around the | country.... | The long term goal is to have a Forum dedicated to UFOs and a | database that may be accessed online by anyone....ga Joe Balsamo: ! David - the other o: ? How far has it gotten in design? GA David/Moderator: ok... Peter Baitz: ! David/Moderator: Good question, we started preliminary designed about 2 | weeks ago, and we going to continue discussion here today... | Nothing has been finalized yet because it involves so much | data.. | Joe > GA Joe Balsamo: Personally, since David and I are going to the MUFON | convention in New Mexico, I'd like to wait until we have had a | chance to speak | to some of the other people... | with UFO databases before we determine a final design. At this | point, any and all suggestions are welcome. Obviously, this | thing | could turn into a logistical nightmare if we don't get support | from some of the bigger groups... | people on CIS have NO means to check out UFO reports, so I | think our job would be more of a centralized clearing house for | data. | We just don't have the structural organization to do followup | reporting. GA David/Moderator: Peter > GA Peter Baitz: Greetings all! I am here finally. How is it going today? GA David/Moderator: Not so bad, we discussing the database as you can | see..... David - the other o: ! Peter Baitz: hello David/Moderator: Hello Steve | ! David/Moderator: You here Peter, we got you. David F, did you have | something to say? ga David - the other o: ok... | Yes. A meeting with the other groups is imperitive for | compatability... | I would guess that the info is not in the same soft or | standardized entry... | forms. It might be a good idea to inquire or propose such a | standard. Also... | in line with the idea of centralize clearing house. A | directory of directions... | for research. you know something like "I'm too busy to deal | with this right... | now but it would be interesting to know...". | Also maybe a request for data registry...GA David/Moderator: Steve > GA Steve | Do you intend to list sightings and call for local support in | documenting the event? Joe Balsamo: ! David/Moderator: Ok... | Thats an interesting point, and one frankly thats never been | brought up before, but it is something that should be .... | considered. As Joe said before, since he and I are attending | the MUFON symposium next month, and we're going to talk to... | several researchers there, it may not be a bad idea to wait and | see what they have to say about the whole thing..... | Joe > GA Jeff Morrow: !! Joe Balsamo: Ok... | I think that everyone needs to think about what they'd like to | see in a database for doing UFO research. Obviously, we want | this | thing to be comprehensive, but compatible as well... | this point, we need to talk to the orgs such as CUFOS and MUFON | and go on from there. I think that it might be more productive | for | us to hold off talking... | he database until Dave and I get back for the symposium. | Perhaps we should concentrate on the online newsletter which is | standalone and totally... | ndent upon just our group...what do you all think? GA David/Moderator: Jeff > GA David>the other: ! Steve | ? Jeff Morrow: Thanks, David! I agree with Joe. ... | Each of these groups has its own adgenda, and we are not in the | position... | to do our own field inveestigation at this time. In order to | function ... | as a central database, we must have the support of at least | some of the ... | current research organizations. I have found that all these | groups... | pretty much guard their data, and don't mix well. I think you | should test... | the waters at the conference before jumping into the database, | but let's... Peter Baitz: ! Jeff Morrow: proceed with the newsletter. I also see that I'm being | paged, and havt leave in a minute. ... | I'll pick up the rest from the transcript. Ga David/Moderator: Sorry to see you go, put I'll post the transcript ASAP, | David > GA David>the other: OK... Jeff Morrow: Thanks. Bye. Ga David>the other: I concur with Joe and Jeff about the Newsletter. It is | more immediately doable... | The key to approaching the other groups is to be valuable to | them... | Provide a service that eventually they find they can't do | without. It ... | Must cost some bucks to keep the individual nets up and | running... | even with late night data exchanges. Researchers do tend to | cover thier... Steve | ! David>the other: data territory rather close until they are ready to | publish...GA David/Moderator: I agree completely with what you and Joe and Jeff | say.....Steve > GA David>the other: ? Steve | I agree with Joe on the newsletter, But I must have missed the | initial | premise of the database, would someone please explain. Joe Balsamo: ! David/Moderator: Joe your good at that, would you care to take the ball | for a minute? GA Joe Balsamo: Sure... | First, I would suggest that everyone download the first two CO | transcripts... | these give a detailed description of what we have been | discussing. In a nutshell, we wanted to create a central | database... | that would be available to anyone in the UFO field. It would | include all verifiable contacts, CE I-V, and any other | pertinant | types of information... | e CIS is international and available to so many, it would be an | ideal place for all of this data to be stored. GA David/Moderator: Peter, sorry for the wait > GA Peter Baitz: No problem. I was just taking it in- catching up.... | I see the database , now as a catalog in database form... | of existing and any new (via CIS and others) UFO related | reports. GA Joe Balsamo: ! David/Moderator: David > GA David>the other: OK... | Comment first...that's just the line to take when pitching the | idea to the othergroups... | Question is ... who edits the newsletter...I suggest Jeff cause | he's not here?...GA David/Moderator: he he he, Joe > GA Joe Balsamo: OK... Peter Baitz: ! Joe Balsamo: First, is anyone else in this group planning on going to the | MUFON symposium? Secondly, I suggest we discuss the online | newsletter | and who all here right now is interested in participating? GA David>the other: ! Peter Baitz: ! David/Moderator: David > GA David>the other: ok... | I'm not gonna be able to get anywhere near AZ cause of busyness | here in the city...I second the motion to table... | Database discussion and move on to the newsletter...I've got | some time I can give...GA David/Moderator: OK. excellent! Peter > GA Peter Baitz: I am interested as well. What will be the format of the | newsletter... | -a lump of articles? - one file? Where are we so far inthis | regard? GA David/Moderator: Ok.... | For now we will table the Database idea until Joe and I have a | chance to dicuss it with the people at the symposium..... Peter Baitz: ! David/Moderator: Now for the Newsletter, I don't know what the format | will be, ASCII I suppose, perhaps a series of files, maybe | pictures, maybe ... | all ZIPped together. Comments? Peter > GA David>the other: ! Peter Baitz: Thanks..... Steve | ! Peter Baitz: I was in fact interested in the newsletter, just to nake it | clear.... | Ok GA David/Moderator: OK great......David > GA David>the other: ok... | I've seen some impressive online newsletters (colors menu | capabable)... | Morning Star avaliable in one of the libs here is one...But I | don't know what | soft... | they use to put it together...propriatery or unique I suppose. | A start to get Joe Balsamo: ! David>the other: us moving fast would be ascii zipped then upgrade. | Does anyone know where/whatmorning star uses?...GA David/Moderator: OK.... | Joe you go first, then Steve you follow...ga Joe Balsamo: Thanks... | I just called a friend of mine who is a newsletter expert and | she is going to join us...hopefully she'll be here in just a | sec...GA Steve | ASCII & GIFF'S, YES! ZIPPED, | THE MORE THE BETTER .=> GA David/Moderator: Good deal, I think we're on to something here!..ga Joe Balsamo: Hi Deb! Deb Carlen: Hello, o spiritual master. David/Moderator: Welcome Deb, how are you today? ga Deb Carlen: No one else could call me out on a nanosecond but you. | ga Joe Balsamo: If I might but in for a moment... David/Moderator: Ok Deb,.... | Ok Joe > GA Deb Carlen: Someone should re-state the rules for me. GA Joe Balsamo: deb is a newsletter expert :)...I think her advise in this | area could be the difference between total success or | failure...sorry | david, thanks for indulging us!...GA David/Moderator: OK... deb the rules are simple.... | If you have a comment type a ! if you have a questions type a | ?, I will call on you in turn with the others....ok...ga Deb Carlen: Dave, thank you; Joe, you are too kind. ...GA David/Moderator: OK.. Deb, do you know what we trying to do here? ga Deb Carlen: Not really; vaguely ga Joe Balsamo: ! David/Moderator: Joe, I take it youd like to explain? GA Joe Balsamo: OK... | Basically what we are doing is formulating the idea of | producing a UFO oriented newsletter.... | right now, it will probably start out in electronic form, but | that is not to say that we may not want it to be in 'real' form | later... | Aside form that, the floor is open to suggestions. GA David/Moderator: If I may.... | The newsletter would encompass UFO sights, reports, | investigations, and theories from around the world.... | it would have articles, pictures perhaps, and reports from | investigators. Thats my idea basically, any others? ga Deb Carlen: ! and ? David/Moderator: Deb > GA Deb Carlen: Sorry to be late to the idea... | but if it's a fax NL, who's doing what... | there are so many things I want to tell you about the effort I | don't know where to start | ga David>the other: ! David/Moderator: David > GA David>the other: ok...Simple start would be bundle of articles/gifs ect | zipped together left in... | Library and/or sent to a mailing list on/offline. I've seen | soft that makes online look really good. We (have we?) chose | Jeff as editor | what was that???... Joe Balsamo: ! David/Moderator: The editor is still up for grabs..... David>the other: Chosing strawboss, contributers (putting out a call for | submissions), format,...what else...GA Deb Carlen: ! David/Moderator: At this point its me and Joe, buts ANYONE else is | welcome! David>the other: JEFF!! David/Moderator: Joe > GA | Joe > GA Joe Balsamo: OK... | David the othe, I appreciate you wanting to volunteer Jeff | ;)...but since he isn't here, I think we need to make sure the | editor | will be someone that is impecably reliable. The staff is going | to have to consist... | going to be able to stick with this thing. That is, IMHO, the | most important aspect. GA David/Moderator: Deb > GA Deb Carlen: I suggest (humbly, please) that whomever's to be involved on | any level, take the course I teach... | and I'll get you in for free. I'm in the midwest in July. | Where are you all (y'all) located? | ga David/Moderator: Well I'm in Missouri...ga Deb Carlen: St. Louis - July 7 ga David>the other: NYC Joe Balsamo: Well, looks like David is it ;) Deb Carlen: Just missed you; the boss is there now but I can't get you in | there til next time ga David/Moderator: July 7, I can make that, where...ga Deb Carlen: St Louis Marriott West - I'll email you details; be sure I | get your CIS id. GA | ! David/Moderator: Good deal, Joe has my Id if you need it. Deb > GA | again! Deb Carlen: Sorry... just wanted to say that the course covers all | aspects of NL production: writing, editing, DTP etc. I just | missed Joe in SDiego, | ga David/Moderator: Cool.. I'll look forward to it..... Joe Balsamo: ! David/Moderator: OK, so I'll be editor, for some reason, and Joe is gonna | be assitant editor, right Joe? GA Deb Carlen: ? Joe Balsamo: Uh, er, yeah sure!... | I was just going to mention that we have lost about half of our | group...I wonder what we should do at this point? GA David/Moderator: Deb > GA Deb Carlen: What is anticipated scope of editorial mix/target audience? David>the other: ! Deb Carlen: ga Joe Balsamo: ! David/Moderator: David > GA Deb Carlen: Sorry David/Mod David>the other: OK... | How about the client nets first then broaden it out to general | public if there'sinterest...ga Deb Carlen: ! David/Moderator: Joe > GA Joe Balsamo: ok... | I was pretty much going to echo what David other said (jeez, | can we call one of you guys dave?) but I think that it will | start out | as an online NL... guys dave?: ! Joe Balsamo: and then progress to a physical nl from there. Obviously, | the people that are going to be interested are the same people | on here, | and if it is good... | it will just grow from there, hopefully...hahahah (guys dave, | love it!) GA David/Moderator: If I may interfect something..... | It might not be a bad idea to make the thing proprietary of | this Forum, but allow PUBLIC ditribution.... | I have several friends with private networks who would be | interested in helping to distribute it.......Deb > GA | BTW call me BOSS....;-) Deb Carlen: OK: Boss, guys Dave & Joe...hmmm we've got a lot to consider. | You're giving away copyright, yes?... David/Moderator: Deb . GA NOT da BOSS: ? Deb Carlen: if you're making it proprietary/ok to public distrib | OK da Boss, but da means something else to me ;) NOT da BOSS: :) David/Moderator: OK da > GA NOT da BOSS: ok... | Question one can you keep Copywrite and still make public | nonlimited distr?...seems I've seen it done... Deb Carlen: ! NOT da BOSS: Question two having given away copywrite can it be regained | down the road? | ...ga David/Moderator: Remember folks, we are in a FORMAL CO here..... | Deb > GA Deb Carlen: NO; IT'S A USE IT OR LOSE IT LAW. It would take an hour to | explain. | but I'll send you all email. ga David/Moderator: Well... | we want it availble to everyone, but I would think we also | would want it clear just WHERE it came from...ga Deb Carlen: 1 | ! David/Moderator: Deb > GA Deb Carlen: OK... | You can do that and still maintain a certain amt of control... | but I think we're jumping the gun (my fault actually)... JOE | do what? Deb Carlen: to get into this before the edit/mktg is set up. ga David/Moderator: Joe,.... | this is a formal CO discussing the possiblity of starting a | electronic UFO newsletter. | Joe B, do you have anything to say....ga Joe Balsamo: ? | Yes... David/Moderator: Joe B > GA Joe Balsamo: I was just going to as Deb, since she is our resident | expert, what we should do first. At this point, what do you | suggest, besides | David taking the course? GA Deb Carlen: ! David/Moderator: Is this course free?............Deb > GA Deb Carlen: Usually $295. I have some discretion with guests. | It's a full day. You'll be exhausted. | ga | ! David/Moderator: OK, I hope you have a LOT of descretion with guests! ;-) | Deb > GA Deb Carlen: Hmmm. This could be interesting... | First, draw up a list of topics... | then a preliminary format, concurrent with a mktg plan ga David/Moderator: Anyone have any suggestions for any of these | suggestions? GA Dave | ! Joe Balsamo: ! David/Moderator: Dave > GA Dave | OK... | Info gathering (esp from GOV'T ie FOIA), contacts of field | workers, history of areas...ga David/Moderator: Joe > GA Joe Balsamo: OK... Dave | ! Joe Balsamo: I was going to suggest that we gather the topics and such in | a manner similar to the one we were going to do with the | database... | les post a message on UFO forum suggesting what we are up to | and ask the group what topics and the like they'd like to see... | The stuff that Dave mentioned is a good start (BTW, I have ALL | of the FOIA's ever filed dealing with UFOs) GA Deb | ! David/Moderator: Dave > GA Dave | OK... | also sociological effects of the concept (RAW Higher | intelligence, Benevolent space brothers ect)... Joe Balsamo: ! Dave | I agree with Joe on posting a rfc but we can't depend on it...GA David/Moderator: Deb > GA Deb | use Joe's/Dave's suggestions you'll need 2 senior copy editors | right off the bat. Info processing will be enormous. | that's OK but be prepared. | ga Dave | ! David/Moderator: Joe > GA Joe Balsamo: OK... | I assume by RAW, you mean Robert Anton Wilson?... Dave | Yes Joe Balsamo: This is something we need to discuss right off the bat is | just how far in which direction we want to go with this nl... | do we want it to be purely scientific, or do we want to explore | ALL possibilities. GA David/Moderator: Dave > GA Deb | ! Dave | ok... | I was thinking this permature but do we want to establish a | point of contact... | From what Deb just said (a bit upward re copy ed) it sounds | like there should be one userid where decisions come from...ga David/Moderator: Deb > GA Deb | We need a mission statement first first first; that's the | hardest of all, THEN we do the editorial mix | And yes, Dave, you need a senior head honcho to make decisions. | ga David/Moderator: Ok.... | Since I'm section Leader of the UFO section, I guess I should | be like main contact?....Also, Deb could you explain this.... | mission statement for me a bit?...ga Deb | Yup... | It's a statement of purpose: why the NL will exist... Dave | ! Deb | it doesn't have to be a major report, just a few sentences. it | also establishes your credibility. ga David/Moderator: Dave > GA Dave | OK... | SOP Art 1 To support and deseminate research on the phenom | UFO...ga David/Moderator: OK.... Joe Balsamo: ! David/Moderator: I think Dave pretty much hit it on the head! | Joe > GA Deb | ! Joe Balsamo: I still think we need to be real clear up front which | approach we are going to take with this... | as you all well know, one can take a 'purely' scientific | approach, or one can open it up to all things...what do you all | think? GA Dave | ! David/Moderator: If I may.... | I think we should TRY and maintain a combination of a | Scientific AND Neutral approach instead of leaning one.... | way or the other like other publications do. Lets present the | facts, as we know them.... | David > GA Dave | OK... | The purely sci approach is one open to almost everything...If | you are saying lets not pander to the fringe... | I concour...However the phenom itself is so truly weird that | some strange thingsare gonna come up...I... | Favor straight reporting and not preaching the great Space | brothers come to save us from ourselves... | But those who belive are also a part of the phenom... | Additionally, the phenom might not be a straight type of thing. | Constant and open to the objective approach... | Wasn't it Vallee who was approached by an ex-intelligence | officer who said that the trouble with... | the scientific approach in this matter is that science views | information free for the taking... | and that ufo's seem to be telling whoever what they want to | hear? Like an intellop laying lots of mutually... | conflicting info out there to be taken as gospel....GA Deb | ! David/Moderator: I'm sorry Deb, please GA Deb | OK | This is the type of discussion that results in good | organization; you may want to ... | let the idea gel a bit before the statement is written... | you see how it spins out the ed mix already. You have two | issues of ideas/topics now. | ga David/Moderator: Your right Deb, I think we should think about this | awhile. What does everyone else think? GA Dave | ! David/Moderator: Dave > GA Dave | OK...I'm thinking that it might be time to sked another | meeting...Deb pse join... Deb | ! Dave | and pack it in for tonight (working into hour 3 here and I got | colors coming up)...GA Joe Balsamo: ! David/Moderator: Deb > GA Deb | Thanks for asking. Yes. ga David/Moderator: Joe > GA Joe Balsamo: She will be right back, David...I agree with what Dave says, | though. | whoops...sorry Dave | huh? | ! David/Moderator: Dave > GA Dave | Sundays are good for me but almost any evening will do (Save | fri/sat nights). | Say Sunday next same time? | ga Deb | ! Joe Balsamo: ! David/Moderator: Deb > GA Deb | I'm on the road a lot in July but if you email me, I'll show up | any time but July 12 - I've got an on-air thingie then. | It was nice to meet all of you. | ga David/Moderator: Deb I want to thank you for dropping by.... | its was very nice AND very helpfull. I hope to see you back at | the next CO! | Joe > GA Joe Balsamo: ok... Dave | ! Joe Balsamo: shall we schedule the next meeting for 5pm EDT July 19th.? GA Dave | June or July? David/Moderator: David > GA | July 19th, is that OK with everyone else??? GA Deb | ! yes. Joe Balsamo: Works for me Dave | Next month is good for me... David/Moderator: Dave, how about you...ga | OK, great, then next month July 19th at 5pm EST, I'll set it up | and Post a message. Anything else? ga Deb | ! Dave | ! David/Moderator: Deb > GA Deb | Will you be assigning any tasks for us in the intervening time David/Moderator: Dave > GA Joe Balsamo: ! Dave | got make a rfc posting. someone what to make a draft of sop? | route it around? David/Moderator: Just a sec here, Joe > GA Joe Balsamo: ok... | I think Dave is right, we may want to post a message and gather | up some thoughts and ideas from everyone so next time we can do | a | statenment of purpose. GA David/Moderator: Yes.... Deb | ! David/Moderator: I'll post a message to everyone here in the Forum, in | the mean time I would like.... | each of you to think on this a bit, and maybe send me a | message, or messages, via this forum as to each of your | thoughts.... | on how to approach this thing. | Deb > GA Deb | Never mind; you guys are way ahead of me. | ga David/Moderator: We try!!! :-) | Anything else anybody? ga Dave | yo | Does anyone have a CUFON number for NYC? David/Moderator: I don't, Joe do you? Joe Balsamo: I have the main CUFOS number: (312) 271-3611 Dave | tks and that's all i got ttfn oo. David/Moderator: If that all, then I call this CO officially over and | done with. Pass the bear please! Dave | growllll ... you can have 'em. Joe Balsamo: OK, good meeting, too bad we lost half the gang, though! Dave | Good night all...[poof] David/Moderator: Good night Dave, | Deb thanks for coming by, I appreicate it. Deb | Dobriya noche | yer welcome David/Moderator: Thanks, lost me for a sec, :-) Joe Balsamo: hasta la vista David/Moderator: Night to you all! Steve | Bye all Joe | Take it easy, David. ********************************************** * THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo * **********************************************